Passing the buck

Here is what I have learned about the list of fake electors from Politico and The Hill.

  • Mike Roman, then Trump’s 2020 director of Election Day operations, reportedly delivered false elector certificates to Matt Stroia, Rep. Mike Kelly’s (R-Pa.) chief of staff.
  • Kelly initially said his office had nothing to do with the fake elector list, but no longer denies that his staff did.
  • An unidentified member of Rep. Kelly’s staff may have distributed copies of the lists to members of Congress.
  • Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) said the false elector lists came to his office from Kelly.
  • Kelly says they didn’t.
  • Johnson said:  “My office’s entire involvement in this thing lasted 70 minutes. My involvement was probably seconds, maybe a minute or two.”
  • Text messages show that Sean Riley, an aide to Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.), reached out to a Pence aide to arrange a handoff of fake election certificates for Michigan and Wisconsin. 
  • Sen. Johnson says he was unaware of his aide’s involvement.
  • Sen. Johnson says as V.P. Pence didn’t want the lists, no harm was done.

These members of Congress seem to know very little about what staff members do. Stay tuned; as more information comes to light, recollections may change again.

About whungerford

* Contributor at where we discuss the politics, economics, and events of the New New York 23rd Congressional District (Allegany, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Chemung, (Eastern) Ontario, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben,Tioga, Tompkins, and Yates Counties) Please visit and comment on whatever strikes your fancy.
This entry was posted in Congress, Political and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

11 Responses to Passing the buck

  1. josephurban says:

    It is frightening to think that these guys are making (or obliterating) our laws.


  2. whungerford says:

    Yes, Joseph, but it is we who elect them. The authors of The Constitution were aware of the danger from irresponsible legislators, but may have underestimated the problem.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. josephurban says:

    Well, WE don’t elect them, the rubes do.


  4. whungerford says:

    Joseph, four years ago you wrote this in a comment on education:

    In NY state critical thinking is an integral part of the Social Studies curriculum. Especially in the required Participation-in-Government course for seniors. The students are encouraged to collect data, analyze points of view, actively participate in politics. There is plenty of good teaching going on.

    In light of this, how is it that so many, even in NYS, even knowing what we now know, consider TFG to have been a good president? That can’t reflect critical thinking.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. arthur ahrens says:

    Critical thinking does not exist in a vacuum. It is dependent on other skills, Some of these are:
    Observation, Analysis, Inference, Communication and Problem Solving.

    As far as I know, those skills are NOT taught in schools.

    In my experience, most people lack one or more of those skills. And so, many people cannot process information and arrive at independent conclusions. The easiest path is: follow the pack.

    Back when there were newspapers, I would marvel at the ink devoted to politics and current affairs (very few) vs the pages devoted to sports and entertainment (many, many, many).

    The fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. josephurban says:

    The answer is two-fold. First, many kids are homeschooled or put in “Christian ” (re: fundamentalist) schools. Second, no one can FORCE a youngster to engage in critical thinking. The opportunity is there. The curriculum is there. But many kids are too busy texting or sexting or just not willing to do the hard work of thinking. You can lead a horse….

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Arthur Ahrens says:

    Mr. Urban,
    I’m not sure that I understand your first sentence.
    Is it your contention that homeschooling is inferior to other methods of education?
    Is it your opinion that education received in “Christian ” (re: fundamentalist) schools is somehow inferior to other methods of education?

    Please elaborate.


  8. josephurban says:

    HI Arthur.My answer was in response to the post by w hunderford. To answer your questions. I should start by explaining my background. I am retired but taught in NY publichigh schools for over 30 years…all the Social Studies (US Goverment, Global Studies, Socialogy,Psychology, Antrhopology and many other courses). I also contributed to the NY State Participation-in-Government Curriculum. So, I have a pretty good handle on what is taught in NY state.

    Regarding homeschooling.I have known one or two people who have done a great job with homeschooling. On the whole, however, I am under the impression that homeschooling is not nearly as rigorous as regular schools. This is especially the case for schools that require fundamentalist religious training. They tend to be anti-science and certainly anti-critical thinking. So, as a general proposition, YES, fundamentalist homeschooling tends to be inferior to regular schooling, public or Catholic.

    In addition, homeschooled children get little or no exposure to students with diverse backgrounds. As a result they take on their parents prejudices without any real world experiences to contradict those prejudices. Schooling is more than readin, writin and rithmetic.. in a pluralistic society regular schooling allows kids to understand that there are a variety of ways of looking at the world. It allows them to manage conflict and understand differences… that not everyone agrees with the narrow world view of mom and dad.

    Critical thinking has been and remains an essential element of NY state education. In fact, it is this critical thinking that the fundamentalists OPPOSE and the main reason they homeschool. A good education involves being taught by experts , not only in their field of knowledge, but in pedagogy as well. NY state teachers not only must have BAs or BSs, they must undergo closely supervised training. And eventually earn a Master’s degree.

    Very few parents, no matter how they might fool themselves, have those qualifications.


  9. whungerford says:

    I had a young neighbor who attended a religious school in Chemung County. The school’s website stated clearly that the priority for every teacher, math, science, government, etc., was to teach that sect’s religion.


  10. Arthur Ahrens says:

    Hello Mr. Urban,

    Thanks for your expansive reply. As all 10 readers of this site know, I am interested in truth, and your reply helps.

    As I am sure you are aware, your arguments are based solely and disappointingly on opinion and anecdotal evidence. I was hoping for more. Your reply did not come close to justifying your statements.

    So, I’ve had to do some research. It seems that there is a large body of literature concerned with Homeschooling vs Traditional. It’s difficult for me to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were. As I have no horse in this race, I am unencumbered with any preconceived or biased notions.

    There are pros and cons to Traditional, and there are pros and cons to Homeschooling. Meh. Largely a personal choice. BUT….

    I’m not going to head into the weeds on this. I DO have a life. But there is one metric that says that homeschooled students outperform traditionally schooled students. This metric can be found with our Google friend.

    In short, homeschooled students outperform traditional student on standardized tests. Their performance on the ACT and SAT is significantly better than that of traditionall schooled students, as is their performance in college. I understand that this is one and only one data point. Still, it is one more than you offered.

    As to your stated bias against fundamentalist Christians…there is an interesting fundamentalist evangelical Christian scientist named Katharine Hayhoe. Perhaps she proves the exception to the rule. Or not. In any case, her upbringing did not deter her in her career.


  11. josephurban says:

    Arthur. You made the statement that public schools do not teach critical thinking skills.
    I pointed out that those skills are an integral part of the NY State Social Studies curriculum. That is neither opinion nor anecdotal. It is a fact. Here is a link to the NY State Social Studies learning standards which have been taught for years.

    Click to access sslearn.pdf


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.