Two New Yorks

secessionI know in the past a lot of people have pooh-poohed it, but I think the time has come.–Sen. Joseph Robach, R-Greece, Monroe County, who has sponsored a secession referendum bill since 2009

“We’re all one family here, let’s keep it that way.”-former NYS Governor Mario Cuomo

Jon Campbell, in an article which appeared in the Elmira Star-Gazette, explores the question of secession. I was surprised to learn that one proponent of secession from metropolitan New York was Randy Kuhl, who once represented much of what is now NY-23.

“Due to the extreme diversity of New York State, it has become almost ungovernable,” reads a memo attached to Kuhl’s 1992 bill. 

Campbell writes:

For at least 24 of the past 28 years, New York lawmakers — most of them upstate Republicans — have introduced legislation that would either start the process of splitting New York into two separate states or gauge whether voters support it. In most cases, the proposals are aimed at splitting more-liberal New York City from the conservative enclaves that dominate much of the geography upstate. But each year, those proposals reliably die in committee without getting much serious consideration …

Sen. Joseph Robach, R-Greece, Monroe County, who has sponsored a secession referendum bill since 2009, says it is a worthwhile measure.

I have heard upstate politicians campaign on the issue of secession, telling voters that voting Republican is the only way to protect upstate interests from threatening city dwellers. This idea helps keep upstate mired in poverty while New York City prospers.

Proponents of secession claim that home rule would benefit upstate. In making that argument, they ignore the fact that the flow of money is from the metropolitan area to upstate rather than the reverse. Secession would make upstate even more poverty stricken than today.

Campbell explains that there has been support in New York City for secession, but I don’t believe there is much support for secession there today. Without that, secession will remain a political ploy for upstate Republicans. In any case, it wouldn’t be easy:

In order to split into two states, the U.S. Constitution says both the state Legislature and Congress have to approve.

Why Congress would want to give NYS two more Senators isn’t clear.

The only case of secession in US History is West Virginia, which happened in the throes of Civil War. It isn’t likely to happen again.

 

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/albany/2019/04/19/upstate-downstate-why-new-york-secession-efforts-havent-had-success/3472365002/

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About whungerford

* Contributor at NewNY23rd.com where we discuss the politics, economics, and events of the New New York 23rd Congressional District (Allegany, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Chemung, (Eastern) Ontario, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben,Tioga, Tompkins, and Yates Counties) Please visit and comment on whatever strikes your fancy.
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11 Responses to Two New Yorks

  1. josephurban says:

    What a horses…t idea. This is just a political ploy to try to further divide New Yorkers against each other. That seems to be the GOP playbook nationwide. Someone should ask these secessionists how they intend to pay for services? Today, depending on how you cut it, between 7-80% of NY taxes come from the city and the associated counties. How do you replace that money?

    “The state collected more than $47.5 billion in income taxes in the last fiscal year, according to the state Division of Budget.

    About $19.2 billion, or 40 percent, came from New York City residents alone. Those in Westchester, Nassau, and Suffolk counties paid $12.1 billion in state income taxes.

    The total for those in New York City and the three counties came to $31.3 billion, or 66 percent of the state total.

    Another $7.8 billion came from non-residents who commuted into New York state for work. Most of those filers worked in New York City, according to a spokesperson from the agency.

    If you add the revenue from non-residents to that of New York City, Westchester, and Long Island filers, the share increases to 82 percent of the state total….”

    https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2018/feb/01/robert-mujica/do-downstate-ny-residents-contribute-more-income-t/

    Liked by 1 person

  2. whungerford says:

    Taxes are theft. Upstate citizens are self-reliant, want and need a minimum of government. We don’t want to pay for city services or welfare queens. Just let us keep our money, and we will invest it wisely ourselves. If others are unfortunate or unwise, too bad for them.

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  3. Rynstone says:

    Right On Whungerford !!!
    And by the way, to hell with building that Border Wall/Fence on the border of Mexico and the US, build the thing deeper, taller and better on the Southern Border of Mexico (for less money). That will make Mexico and it’s citizens happy and make Americans Happy.
    I was just in Mexico and everyone I talked to there loves the idea.

    Dividing States;
    When I used to have a sales office and apartment in Clifton, NJ, I purchased an annual unlimited pass for traveling 24/7 on the NY City Subways and city buses for 357 bucks a year that covered all 5 boroughs of NY City. There is no way that this annual fee covers the cost of public transportation in NY City.
    After spending many days and weeks over the course of over 30 years in NY City I believe that the cost of NY City infrastructure, government and security is subsidized NY upstate NY taxpayers.

    In addition to WV succeeding from VA there are other states that also succeeded for larger states.
    Kentucky succeeded from VA in 1795
    Vermont was allowed to succeed from NY State to become the 14th state.
    Maine separated from Massachusetts well before the Civil war.

    Succession of counties from the states they exist in is nothing new and has been discussed an many states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_partition_proposals

    What the NY State legislature has/is doing regarding dividing NY State;
    https://www.nystateofpolitics.com/2019/02/the-divide-new-york-debate-returns/

    In NY State we have Divide NY https://www.divideny.com/about-us
    and another new effort called The New Amsterdam Project;

    I am very concerned that NY State cities will become more and more like San Francisco and Seattle, WA due to liberal policies and non-enforcement of existing laws.
    This is a very informational documentary done by a Seattle, WA TV station.

    And this op-ed is also worth reading
    https://www.collapse.news/2019-04-12-amazon-seattle-leftist-stronghold-drug-addiction.html

    And now for a bit of humor for the day…….. How many times have I said “You Never Go FULL Semi-Automatic” !!!!!! when will the Gun Lovers figure this out and stop going on
    Full Semi-Auto?!?!?!?
    https://www.youtube/5xVOXCL2JGA

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  4. whungerford says:

    Gary, I have read your post without finding any hint of why you might think dividing NYS into two or more parts would serve any useful purpose.

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  5. josephurban says:

    Well, we can go with our “feelings”or facts.I prefer facts. Western NY receives more in aid than it pays in taxes. NYC subsidizes the rest of the state. FACT. This Politifact article explains, in detail. I am posting just a summary.
    Our Ruling

    “…In his ad, Jacobs says “New York City ends up getting the money” from taxes paid by Western New York residents.

    Data obtained from the Department of Budget shows Western New York, including Erie County, consistently receives a bigger percentage share of state spending than its residents’ percentage contribution in taxes. Jacobs implies the region is not getting its fair share. Data shows it’s getting more than its fair share in the state’s largest spending categories.

    There are a few categories in which New York City receives more than it puts in, but overall, the difference between how much is paid in taxes and how much is spent on services and projects benefits Western New York – not New York City.

    We rate this claim as False….”
    Full article with all the data:
    https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2016/oct/14/chris-jacobs/state-spends-more-western-new-york-it-receives-tax/

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  6. josephurban says:

    Ryn wrote:
    “When I used to have a sales office and apartment in Clifton, NJ, I purchased an annual unlimited pass for traveling 24/7 on the NY City Subways and city buses for 357 bucks a year that covered all 5 boroughs of NY City. There is no way that this annual fee covers the cost of public transportation in NY City.
    After spending many days and weeks over the course of over 30 years in NY City I believe that the cost of NY City infrastructure, government and security is subsidized NY upstate NY taxpayers….”
    I don’t know when you were in NYC but it must have been a long time ago, Today a monthly pass costs 121 . So that comes to 1,400 per year, not 357 bucks. That does not include the cost of getting from NJ to NYC.
    Of course, the 82% of NY taxes paid by NYC and the surrounding counties are sent out west to build roads here in western NY. Roads that those taxpayers will never use. It is called “society”.

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  7. pitch says:

    The financial buggetee boo is just that. If we did split,we certainly would not be a progressive financial powerhouse. We would look a lot like Vermont, West Virginia, Indiana,Wisconsin. etc. A perfectly adequate level of well being.
    No, We would no longer have the most generous in the nation Welfare benefits,but there is no reason we should. our current standing shows throwing money at schools does not improve ranking. Our business climate would no doubt improve, there by increasing our financial well being.
    A major major deal to many is we would no longer have to suffer under the most restrictive and ridiculous firearms laws in the nation that were formulated and legislated for the city and by the city.
    A smaller more compact homogeneous state could be governed more efficiently and effectively.

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  8. whungerford says:

    Firearms in the wrong hands are no less a problem in Elmira or Jamestown than in NYC. Nor is poverty not a problem upstate where the social safety net is essential for many. That a government dominated by backwoods reactionaries would be efficient or effective is a dubious proposition.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. josephurban says:

    Someone talked about NY schools. Well I taught in NY schools for many years. I can tell you this. We had students of high school age come up from Florida more than a few times. Every one of them complained about “too much homework” and that the “tests are too hard”. Most went back to Florida because they could not pass the NY state tests. But they were passed along in Florida. NY has one of the most rigorous public school curricula in the nation.

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  10. Anonymous says:

    I never said there would be no social welfare system. Just one that provides good BASIC services, which we far surpass now.
    The Federal background check is the safeguard against bad guys buying guns legally. Oh! Thats right, they don’t now! There has never been a law written that prevented a crime. Never!

    Liked by 1 person

  11. josephurban says:

    There are no federal background checks for private sales of guns or gun show sales by non dealers. Major loophole.
    The idea that “There has never bee a law written that has prevented a crime” is true. Also it is irrelevant to any discussion of the law. Should there be no laws against child rape because some people will break that law?

    Like

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