H.R.38 – Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017

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The House is expected to vote today on H.R.38 – Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017. Here is the CRS summary, which may not be up to date:

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017

This bill amends the federal criminal code to allow a qualified individual to carry a concealed handgun into or possess a concealed handgun in another state that allows individuals to carry concealed firearms.

A qualified individual must: (1) be eligible to possess, transport, or receive a firearm under federal law; (2) carry a valid photo identification document; and (3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by, or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in, his or her state of residence.

Additionally, the bill specifies that a qualified individual who lawfully carries or possesses a concealed handgun in another state: (1) is not subject to the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm in a school zone, and (2) may carry or possess the concealed handgun in federally owned lands that are open to the public.

The above summary may not be up to date. CNN reports:

The bill (H.R.38) is a top priority of the National Rifle Association, and since leaving committee it has been combined with an additional measure that is designed to update the federal background check system after holes were exposed by November’s mass shooting at a church in Texas.

Rep. Reed is a cosponsor. Have we learned anything from experience with firearm violence? Not much yet, evidently. Why link needed improvements to background checks with a bill to loosen firearm regulations? Why weaken regulations restricting handguns in school zones?

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/38

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/05/politics/house-vote-concealed-carry-reciprocity-bill/index.html

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About whungerford

* Contributor at NewNY23rd.com where we discuss the politics, economics, and events of the New New York 23rd Congressional District (Allegany, Cattaraugus, Chautauqua, Chemung, (Eastern) Ontario, Schuyler, Seneca, Steuben,Tioga, Tompkins, and Yates Counties) Please visit and comment on whatever strikes your fancy.
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29 Responses to H.R.38 – Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017

  1. Steve Beikirch says:

    First let me say something upfront. I have often heard from some people that carrying a concealed handgun is a right guaranteed by the Second Amendment. This is a mistaken belief. If it were a right why are people required to obtain a concealed carry permit?

    The main problem with this bill as it relates to reciprocity is that it doesn’t create a federal standard as to the requirements for carrying a concealed handgun (training, permitting, etc.) and requirements for the transportation of concealed handguns. What this bill will do is allow the federal government to import the laws of one state into all states. This would deprive the citizens of each state the ability to make their own judgment regarding concealed carry.

    The inclusion of two other separate issues (NICS reporting fix and bump-stock study) in this bill is dubious at best. These two issues need to be debated separately.

    Like

  2. Rynstone says:

    The 2nd Amendment is there to task the Federal Government with protecting the Right of American citizens to own and carry firearms. Certain responsibilities do come with this Natural Right. Mainly, do not violate the rights of other citizens while using your 2nd Amendment Right.
    The NY State pistol permit is unconstitutional.

    We all saw how well the Federal Government bureaucracy worked in preventing the recent mass shooting in a Texas Church. The man had done time in jail for domestic abuse and should have been placed on the NICS background list. Government bureaucracy and lack of accountability or punishment allowed this to happen.

    Firearms do not kill people. Bad people kill people. It takes a good person with a gun to stop a bad person with a gun.

    Like

  3. Steve Beikirch says:

    Rynstone, apparently since 1911 when the New York pistol permit (Sullivan Act) became state law it hasn’t been deemed by the United States Supreme Court to be unconstitutional.

    There is no doubt in my mind the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) needs fixing. The biggest impediment to being fixed is the gun lobby’s control over Congress. Since the implementation of NICS in 1998, Congress has failed to give it any teeth. After each mass shooting Congress did a lot of talking and nothing more. In 2007 a measure signed by President George W. Bush, promised to strengthen NICS by establishing incentives and penalties to prod states to submit records of people legally barred under federal law from buying guns, including those who had been committed to mental institutions. To this day more than half the states haven’t provided mental health records to the federal database that gun dealers use to check on buyers. Certain less than honorable members of Congress let states get away with this by saying requiring states to provide data was an unfunded mandate that would put a burden on the states. I believe there was also a deliberate failure by Congress to require the Defense Department to provide data.

    As for the “good person with a gun” crock – do yourself a favor and think for yourself instead of parroting the self-serving NRA mouthpiece Wayne LaPierre.

    As someone who held a Federal Firearms License for over 25 years, I would be happy to debate the Second Amendment or any gun issue with you. By the way, do you consider concealed carry to be a right protected by the Second Amendment? If so, please explain the legal basis for your belief.

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  4. Rynstone says:

    If a person is not convicted of a felony then they should be able to carry open or concealed according to the 2nd Amendment. I think open carry is not wise and mistakenly alarms and scares people. I would not advise open carry in most situations.

    I want to see somebody convicted for the screw up in teh military for teh Texas Church shooter.

    I want to see convicted felons who try and purchase a firearm and fail the NICS check be prosecuted.
    I want to see real criminals prosecuted to teh full extent of the law for firearms violations.

    I do not want to see any more gun laws. They simply do not work and everytime there is a mass shooting and teh media and politicians talk about “common sense gun laws” there is a huge spike in firearms sales. Andrew Cuomo should have been given the top firearms sales award as gun purchases increased dramatically in NY State after the passage of the NY SAFE Act in the middle of the night and no open government or transparency.

    The 2nd Amendment;
    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

    keep and bear arms = Keep verb (used with object), kept, keeping.
    1. to hold or retain in one’s possession; hold as one’s own:

    bear = Verb to carry; bring: to have and be entitled to: to have and use; exercise:

    I would suggest reading The Federalist Paper # 46 by little Jimmy Madison.

    As far as teachers or a trained person or persons in a school with a concealed firearm I think it is more than logical to end school shootings.

    You advertise the fact that there are several “unknown” trained and armed school personnel.

    When a child falls in the pool and is in danger of drowning we don’t call 911 and wait for help to arrive. Someone jumps in and saves the child and performs CPR if necessary.

    When students get into a physical altercation we don’t call 911 and wait for help to arrive. Someone steps in and breaks up the physical altercation.

    When a fire breaks out 911 is called but there is usually a few trained people who try to extinguish teh fire quickly before it spreads.

    Why do we have armed security at Court houses, County office building, state building and federal building? They are there to deter an armed intruder.
    I do believe that there are places an ordinary citizen should not be allowed to carry a firearm. (schools, county office buildings, court houses, and some state and federal buildings.

    Like

  5. Rynstone says:

    HIPPA laws throw a small curve ball into the NICS program. We may have to consider citizens who want to own handguns would have to sign a release form with their medical doctor. It would be hard to manage and the doctor would also have to inform the citizen/patient that he was submitting any medical records to the NICS program. It could not be done in secret. (like the No-Fly list) And it must be open to a legal hearing to prevent activist doctors from removing handguns from law abiding citizens without due process.

    Like

  6. Steve Beikirch says:

    Rynstone, HIPAA – you sure are trying to create a problem where one does not exist. Here is something for you to consider. Although not the same time of law enforcement situation, lawmakers were able to satisfactorily deal with HIPAA in regards to bio-terrorism or public health emergencies.

    “Covered entities may disclose protected health information, without the individual’s authorization, to a public health authority acting as authorized by law in response to a bioterrorism threat or public health emergency (see 45 CFR 164.512(b)), public health activities). The Privacy Rule also permits a covered entity to disclose protected health information to public officials who are reasonably able to prevent or lessen a serious and imminent threat to public health or safety related to bioterrorism (see 45 CFR 164.512(j)), to avert a serious threat to health or safety). In addition, disclosure of protected health information, without the individual’s authorization, is permitted where the circumstances of the emergency implicates law enforcement activities (see 45 CFR 164.512(f)); national security and intelligence activities (see 45 CFR 164.512(k)(2)); or judicial and administrative proceedings (see 45 CFR 164.512(e)).”

    Liked by 1 person

  7. whungerford says:

    H.R.38 passed the House on a largely party-line vote. Rep. Reed, as expected, voted AYE.
    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2017/roll663.xml

    Like

  8. pystew says:

    Even if the Senate doesn’t pass this bill, Reed will use it to incite his base voters in November. The question that we must ask is, “How does this protect New York residents?”

    Like

  9. Carol says:

    I asked that question of his DC staffer. No response.

    Like

  10. Rynstone says:

    The vote tally of NY Congressional House members.

    One RINO Dan Donovan

    No D Rice, Kathleen NY 4th
    No D Meeks, Gregory NY 5th
    No D Meng, Grace NY 6th
    No D Velázquez, Nydia NY 7th
    No D Jeffries, Hakeem NY 8th
    No D Clarke, Yvette NY 9th
    No D Nadler, Jerrold NY 10th
    No R Donovan, Daniel NY 11th
    No D Maloney, Carolyn NY 12th
    No D Espaillat, Adriano NY 13th
    No D Crowley, Joe NY 14th
    No D Serrano, José NY 15th
    No D Engel, Eliot NY 16th
    No D Lowey, Nita NY 17th
    No D Maloney, Sean NY 18th
    Aye R Faso, John NY 19th
    No D Tonko, Paul NY 20th
    Aye R Stefanik, Elise NY 21st
    Aye R Tenney, Claudia NY 22nd
    Aye R Reed, Tom NY 23rd
    Aye R Katko, John NY 24th
    No D Slaughter, Louise NY 25th
    No D Higgins, Brian NY 26th
    Aye R Collins, Chris NY 27th

    Like

  11. Rynstone says:

    This protects NYers several ways.

    Family members who are in the military stationed out of state traveling home to visit family members.

    Family members who have relocated out of the state who travel to NY to visit family members or for business purposes.

    This would save the judicial system from unnecessary costs and time and wasted police officer hours dealing with out of state licensed and permitted handgun owners from being prosecuted for expressing their Right and freedom of the 2nd Amendment while in NY State.

    Like

  12. whungerford says:

    Rynstone, I find your three points very weak. I believe it is wrong that lax laws in other states would prevail in NYS.

    Like

  13. Rynstone says:

    A pistol Permit required fingerprinting (FBI Check list) and a NICS background check. Can you imagine being a permitted handgun owner and a resident of PA, Vermont, OH, MA, NJ or CT and traveling into NY State (especially if you live on or near any one of these borders) and getting caught with a handgun on your person or in your vehicle?

    You may find my three points weak but the the 2nd Amendment is an Inalienable Right and it is the Federal Governments responsibility to protect our 2nd Amendment Right.

    Words have meanings

    noun
    a right according to natural law, a right that cannot be taken away, denied, or transferred

    Like

  14. whungerford says:

    There is no more reason for a resident of another state to bring a handgun on a visit to NYS than for a citizen of the US to take a handgun to Canada, which would be illegal. There are way to many guns in NYS and elsewhere without people bringing more. If reciprocity were required by the Second Amendment, H.R. 38 would be redundant.

    Like

  15. Rynstone says:

    Canada has nothing to do with the US Constitution. You can legally take long guns (including semi-automatic rifles) into Canada.

    I believe that we may have to find an individual who has deep pockets or can raise funds to make this a Supreme Court issue if this legislation is not passed.

    Why are there “too many guns in NYS and elsewhere” ? How many is too many? How many should we have? Again, I am asking the question to learn and discuss, not to argue or dismiss.

    Like

  16. whungerford says:

    Why are there too many guns? Because too many are being killed and maimed daily.

    Like

  17. Rynstone says:

    From Elise Stefenik; (the youngest Congressional member ever elected, the youngest Congressional woman ever elected and the youngest current serving Congressional member)

    Friend,

    I’m standing firm to protect the 2nd Amendment.

    Stand with me today and share our Facebook post as we continue to fight to protect our right to bear arms >>>

    Throughout my time in public service, I have strongly supported the Second Amendment. I am a proud gun owner, and retain an “A” rating from the National Rifle Association.

    I’ve demonstrated my commitment to this issue by co-sponsoring the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, which would allow qualified individuals to cross state lines with a concealed handgun.

    Yesterday we passed it out of the House with my strong support.

    Nancy Pelosi and Democrats are eager to regain control of the House and impose restrictive laws that would curb Constitutionally protected rights.
    We can’t let that happen…

    Please share our post to show that the North Country stands firm on the Second Amendment.

    I will continue my efforts to pass much-needed reforms to improve our nation’s mental health system, and to help further reduce gun violence in our country, without infringing on the Constitutional rights of law-abiding Americans.

    Thank you,
    Elise Stefanik

    Like

  18. whungerford says:

    Why should we care what Elise Stefanik thinks?

    Like

  19. Steve Beikirch says:

    Rynstone, Under proposed federal concealed carry reciprocity legislation, each state would be forced to accept the standards of all other states—including those with much lower standards, or even no standards at all. Currently 13 states (Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming) do not require a permit to carry a concealed gun in public. No permit required = no gun safety training or live-fire training. Only 6 set a minimum age of 21 for concealed carry.

    Residents of states with stricter permitting standards have used recognition and reciprocity agreements to get around licensing rules that might disqualify them from carrying concealed firearms, or just to avoid regulations that they deem a hassle.

    If you think reciprocity should apply to concealed carry permits (a privilege) then shouldn’t similar reciprocity apply to driving (also a privilege) and speed limit laws? What about marijuana procession or drinking age?

    Like

  20. Steve Beikirch says:

    Rynstone, if concealed carry is a constitutional right then why has the U.S. Supreme Court not struck down permit requirement in all states?

    Like

  21. Rynstone says:

    From the CDC on unintentional deaths Age 0 to 9 years of age during 2010 per/100,000.
    There are far more deaths from other things beside firearms
    Gun Deaths – 36 ea. (0.09%)
    Drowning – 609 ea. (1.48%)
    Fires/Burns – 262 ea. (0.64%)
    Poisoning – 54 ea. (0.13%)
    Motor vehicle – 923 ea. (2.27%)
    Falls – 45 ea. (0.11%)
    Pedestrian Traffic – 186 ea. (0.46%)
    Natural Environmental – 88 ea. (0.21%)
    Suffocation – 1,070 ea. (2.59%)
    Motor Vehicle Traffic – 773 ea. (1.90%) (different codes and accidents than Motor Vehicles and Pedestrian)
    https://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_inj.html
    From the FBI 2011 Stats there are more murders from knives, clubs (bats) and fists than there are from all long guns including the incorrectly label “assault rifle”.
    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8
    Handguns – 6,220
    Rifles – 323
    Shotguns – 356
    Other guns – 97
    Firearms, type not stated – 1,587
    Knives or cutting instruments – 1,694
    Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) – 496
    Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.) – 728

    While I do not have the current illegal Drug overdose statistics available there are far more deaths caused from illegal drugs than firearms.

    As a parent I am very concerned and at times worried about one of my three children being injured or killed from an auto accident, bike riding/auto accident, drowning, running/auto accident, House fire/burn and a fall while hiking or working around the house or property.
    I am also concerned about injury or death from an act of terrorism from terrorists, non-citizens and criminals who cannot legally own firearms when they travel to major cities or out of the Country.

    I am not concerned or worried in the least bit about them being injured or killed by a firearm.

    I am also not concerned or worried in the least bit about them dying from illegal drug usage.

    Should we make illegal drugs, DWI, cars, bicycles, swimming, hiking, climbing, living in apartments and houses, hammers, knives, bats, fists and feet illegal ?
    This is a novel thought; maybe we can make killing another person else illegal (unless it is self-defense).

    When there are multiple deaths not involved due to firearms we do not blame and look at the person, we blame the accident. However, when there is a firearm death we immediately blame the gun and not the person !?!?!
    Guns do not kill people . People kill people.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Rynstone says:

    Steve, I am not aware that the pistol permit process has ever been challenged at the Supreme Court.
    I am aware of the fairly recent Heller decision
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

    I do not believe that there should be a minimum drinking age. I have been to countries with no drinking age restrictions and they do not have the problems with drinking that we have here in the US.
    The 2nd Amendment is a Constitutional protected Right, not a privilege.
    I also drive in all fifty state with my NY State driver’s license. (also Mexico, Canada, Trinidad, the UK, Germany and any of the Bahama Islands)

    Like

  23. Rynstone says:

    The inmates are running the asylum !

    They could just make it illegal for criminals to use firearms, knives and clubs during robberies!
    Or better yet, ask all criminals to turn in their firearms !

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Rynstone says:

    Had one of these women been in possession of a concealed handgun and been properly trained things most likely would have turned out differently.

    This is another example of what we get what we get with Progressive Liberalism.
    https://conservativetribune.com/illegal-alien-taunts-family-court/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=dailyam&utm_content=conservative-50

    Like

  25. Rynstone says:

    This is an interesting take on H.R. 38
    http://freebeacon.com/issues/nra-blasts-misleading-claims-made-gun-background-check-bill-ahead-house-vote/

    and this is one reason we need more concealed carry ;
    in 2007 More Americans killed by illegal immigrants (undocumented workers for Progressive Liberals) than there were Americans in the Iraq war.
    http://www.aina.org/news/20070222122335.htm

    I wish we had an updated or more recent study on these stats.

    Like

  26. Steve Beikirch says:

    Rynstone, when you drive in other states with your NY drivers license do you abide by the laws of the state where you are driving or do you think NYS laws should take president?

    Like

  27. Rynstone says:

    That’s a ridiculous question Steve that is not worth answering.
    When I am driving in other states they do not disregard my NY State drivers license or try to take it or my vehicle. Under certain motor vehicle laws that vary from state to state if you break certain laws in another state you can lose your driving privileges in that state but still be able to drive with your license and vehicle in the other remaining states.
    A CDL license has totally different regulations.
    A PA or any of the other state’s handgun permits should be allowed to be valid in NY State.
    We are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject since you prefer to infringe on the 2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights listed in the US Constitution.

    Like

  28. whungerford says:

    Clarification per Politifact:
    Concealed carry permit-holders — and residents of the dozen states that allow permitless concealed carry — would still be subject to any state or local laws that prohibit or restrict the carry of a gun in a school or a designated zone around it.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/dec/07/brendan-boyle/no-gop-concealed-carry-bill-does-not-block-states-/

    Like

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